Science Will Win
Following Sean's recent appearance in the public forum, I thought it might be useful to use that and what he said there to clarify my stance on where we are on this strange and fascinating journey. First of all, he informed us all that he had not shown the OS a self-sustaining device and so now it becomes obvious why I remain a sceptic.
When I talk about the marvellous resource behind the wire, I am primarily talking about the people there. I am constantly humbled by the generous spirit of those folks who have been patiently waiting and/or working away on trying to get to the bottom of this thing. Even hardened sceptics are willing to spend countless hours probing and building in order to prove their point in a constructive and cooperative fashion. While I have much sympathy with and understand the predominantly negative stance of those outside who think that this is all BS, I am much more impressed by those behind the wire who use their knowledge and skills to experiment, often taking Steorn to task even as they listen and build.
It is quite reasonable for people to think that Steorn is spouting rubbish and that their claims are bogus. Even their supporters at times found it impossible to support them. Following the London un-demo and the negative jury verdict, it would be a poor reflection on the intellectual state of our society if those giving their claims the benefit of the doubt did not take a giant leap backwards. I have more 'faith' in the scientists and engineers of this world to uncover the truth of things than any other body of people and I despair when members of that body are attacked as though they are all incapable of seeing beyond their own blinkered beliefs. I know it is a hard-won discipline that keeps them grounded even as they reach for the stars. While I do not have the resources, skills or knowledge to join them, it is to that type of person I am naturally inclined to side with in any argument regarding seemingly impossible and unproven claims.
The harsh truth is that if someone tells you they can turn sand into water but will not show you proof, they are probably lying or deluded. And the harsh truth is that after all these years, Steorn has not shown us what they said they would. For that reason, I remain a sceptic and side with any person who feels the same and expresses that sentiment in a level-headed fashion.
Much as all the above is true, as I see it, I am not a scientist. I do not have a reputation to protect and I find it impossible to ignore the human side of this story. I can categorically tell you that there are real engineers behind Steorn's walls. There are clever people there who know the difference between a self-sustaining device and a butter-dish. They understand that it is easy to make a measurement error in complicated, interacting systems and that that is more likely than perpetual motion. They are skilled and demonstratively inventive.
And they say – with no equivocation - that they have a self-sustaining machine and that they are about to change the world.
I was particularly struck by Sean's recent public comments and his apparent confidence. Yes, we have seen it before. We saw it before the demo and we saw it before the jury gave their verdict. The likely result of all of this is that whatever has been going on, we will not be walking hand in hand into a free-energy sunset. But despite all this, I give the possibility some air. True, Sean may be deluded or lying, but I find that hard to reconcile with the person I met or the hard-headed engineer he obviously is. I am aware that this means little against the enormity of the claim. It is more logical to attack the trusting part of my nature and caution it against false hope. But, I refuse to kill the human side that whispers hope against the odds. It costs me nothing.
I wait, fascinated and open to anything.
As I said in my last post. Christmas is coming. One way or the other, we will be able to celebrate. And either way, science wins.
When I talk about the marvellous resource behind the wire, I am primarily talking about the people there. I am constantly humbled by the generous spirit of those folks who have been patiently waiting and/or working away on trying to get to the bottom of this thing. Even hardened sceptics are willing to spend countless hours probing and building in order to prove their point in a constructive and cooperative fashion. While I have much sympathy with and understand the predominantly negative stance of those outside who think that this is all BS, I am much more impressed by those behind the wire who use their knowledge and skills to experiment, often taking Steorn to task even as they listen and build.
It is quite reasonable for people to think that Steorn is spouting rubbish and that their claims are bogus. Even their supporters at times found it impossible to support them. Following the London un-demo and the negative jury verdict, it would be a poor reflection on the intellectual state of our society if those giving their claims the benefit of the doubt did not take a giant leap backwards. I have more 'faith' in the scientists and engineers of this world to uncover the truth of things than any other body of people and I despair when members of that body are attacked as though they are all incapable of seeing beyond their own blinkered beliefs. I know it is a hard-won discipline that keeps them grounded even as they reach for the stars. While I do not have the resources, skills or knowledge to join them, it is to that type of person I am naturally inclined to side with in any argument regarding seemingly impossible and unproven claims.
The harsh truth is that if someone tells you they can turn sand into water but will not show you proof, they are probably lying or deluded. And the harsh truth is that after all these years, Steorn has not shown us what they said they would. For that reason, I remain a sceptic and side with any person who feels the same and expresses that sentiment in a level-headed fashion.
Much as all the above is true, as I see it, I am not a scientist. I do not have a reputation to protect and I find it impossible to ignore the human side of this story. I can categorically tell you that there are real engineers behind Steorn's walls. There are clever people there who know the difference between a self-sustaining device and a butter-dish. They understand that it is easy to make a measurement error in complicated, interacting systems and that that is more likely than perpetual motion. They are skilled and demonstratively inventive.
And they say – with no equivocation - that they have a self-sustaining machine and that they are about to change the world.
I was particularly struck by Sean's recent public comments and his apparent confidence. Yes, we have seen it before. We saw it before the demo and we saw it before the jury gave their verdict. The likely result of all of this is that whatever has been going on, we will not be walking hand in hand into a free-energy sunset. But despite all this, I give the possibility some air. True, Sean may be deluded or lying, but I find that hard to reconcile with the person I met or the hard-headed engineer he obviously is. I am aware that this means little against the enormity of the claim. It is more logical to attack the trusting part of my nature and caution it against false hope. But, I refuse to kill the human side that whispers hope against the odds. It costs me nothing.
I wait, fascinated and open to anything.
As I said in my last post. Christmas is coming. One way or the other, we will be able to celebrate. And either way, science wins.
15 Comments:
I was struck by what you said at the start, that Steorn had not shown the 'OS' - I guess that is the group of 300 - a self-sustaining device.
After 3 years of grandiose claims, Steorn is unable or unwilling even to show a video of a
self-sustaining device, even to their privileged group, to whom, I guess, they have divulged the OU secret.
I can't see why anyone would be impressed at this point by a flash presentation, no matter how well it lays out the 'secret' of an overunity device.
Steorn have to have the goods and you have made clear that they do not, or at least haven't shown them.
The only thing in Steorn's favor is that their actions have always been so bizarre that the nothing OS can't make them appear any worse than they already do.
If Sean actually demos a self-sustaining device before the end of the year, as he has promised, then the Clock of Hope will reset, and we'll all wait for the replications to occur.
If not, we'll wait for the lawsuits/criminal charges.
Drama or farce - we are assured of one or the other, so the audience cannot lose
Hi Anon,
Here is Sean's statement in the forum:
http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=61927&page=3#Item_35
As for the flash demo. I'm sure you'll agree that a presentation can be impressive if its contents appear solid and reveal specifics of a new technology. While that is a long way from a demo, it can still be intriguing enough to make someone want to investigate further. Will that lead to OU? I am yet to be convinced. I am, however, convinced of their inventiveness and look forward to what comes next.
Steorn are being true to their latest schedule. They are indeed delivering what they promised and when.
As you say, the audience cannot lose.
"And they say - without equivocation that they have a self sustaining machine and that they are about to change the world."
They've said much boldly, unequivocally, and with no hesitation that hasn't been true.
When they first announced in "The Economist" they said their technology was proven to work: always. In post jury comments by Steorn, Steorn acknowledged that was not true.
Shortly after they announced they said they had devices from micropower to hundreds of kiloWatts that worked. Obviously, the jury didn't see anything like that.
They said they were going to put pumps into some poor Afican village. They didn't.
They said they were going to demonstrate a working device in London. They didn't.
They flew a physicist from America and promised to give him a device to study and tear apart. They didn't.
They told the people at the failed London demo they would redemo. They didn't.
They told the SPDC that they would show video of a working device. They didn't.
Steorn told the SPDC and then the SPDCII and then the OS that Steorn would explain their technology to them. Steorn said that was their purpose for those groups. They didn't.
Steorn said the jury quit at the end of 2008. The jury said it continued into June 2009.
Just a day or two after the jury reported, Steorn said: "during 2009 the company had resolved the key technical problems related to the implementation of Orbo". This must have been a different 2009 than the one the jury worked through June of.
What Steorn says is not trustworthy.
"And they say - without equivocation that they have a self sustaining machine and that they are about to change the world."
They've said much boldly, unequivocally, and with no hesitation that hasn't been true.
When they first announced in "The Economist" they said their technology was proven to work: always. In post jury comments by Steorn, Steorn acknowledged that was not true.
Shortly after they announced they said they had devices from micropower to hundreds of kiloWatts that worked. Obviously, the jury didn't see anything like that.
They said they were going to put pumps into some poor Afican village. They didn't.
They said they were going to demonstrate a working device in London. They didn't.
They flew a physicist from America and promised to give him a device to study and tear apart. They didn't.
They told the people at the failed London demo they would redemo. They didn't.
They told the SPDC that they would show video of a working device. They didn't.
Steorn told the SPDC and then the SPDCII and then the OS that Steorn would explain their technology to them. Steorn said that was their purpose for those groups. They didn't.
Steorn said the jury quit at the end of 2008. The jury said it continued into June 2009.
Just a day or two after the jury reported, Steorn said: "during 2009 the company had resolved the key technical problems related to the implementation of Orbo". This must have been a different 2009 than the one the jury worked through June of.
What Steorn says is not trustworthy.
Hello Mary.
Christmas will come and christmas will go. 2010 will be steorns year, oh no, I meant 2011, maybe I mean 2012 beacuse 2011 is just a round the corner, blah, blah blah. There is absoultely no way that there will be an Orbo by the end of any year let alone 2009. Yet as every deadline passes the clock gets reset to a new more "improved" date. :)
I was delighted for Sean on being able to return to the forum from a long notable absence with some real truthful news. His announcement:
"As some of you may have noticed we experienced an outage for about 16 hrs. This was due to our ISP Colt which had problems throughout their European network.
Various reasons have been given for the down time:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/08/colt_telecom_outage/
This has been the longest outage we have ever experienced from our ISP and will be looking at reducing this risk in future.
Enjoy,
Sean"
What a relief for him to be able to come back onto the forum with something that was a truth rather than a lie. He was well clearly able to express what the external problem was. I found it moving that for once in his life he was able to be able to write something that wasn't a lie with such authority. It's just a shame he has to resort back to his old self when probed or questioned about Orbo.
The whole steorn scam is not really interesting to me other than the fact they conspired as a group of individuals to pull it off under the guise of a Ltd company, that and the fact that these guys threw away their entire reputations over a few dollars. Why? Steorn are so far in over their heads at this point they dont even know they are a scam any more. As long as Sean keeps feeding the cats everybody in Africa will be just fine.
Steorn:"...the solution to this problem was the development of our own bearing technology."
Sean claims that they need magnetic bearings to keep Orbo rolling. Does this mean taht Orbo looses all its energy in the bearings ? That does not sound like much OU to me.
What is the difference in energy losses for a standard bearing and a magnetic bearing ?
When you are talking about OU of several hundred percent the bearings doesnt matter at all.
This is the proof that Orbo never has and never will work.
I hereby declare Orbo for dead.
End of discussion.
"I can categorically tell you that there are real engineers behind Steorn's walls. There are clever people there who know the difference between a self-sustaining device and a butter-dish. They understand that it is easy to make a measurement error in complicated, interacting systems and that that is more likely than perpetual motion. They are skilled and demonstratively inventive."
While your post is thoughtful I would like to point you out that engineer are human. Even the best can make simple blunder as to forget transforming foot to meter, and lose hundreds of million of dollar of equipment. There are enough example of that in space exploration history.
Even technician or people on which their live hangs out on such a simple things can make terrible error (like the flight between US and canada where they confused pound of fuel to kilogram of fuel, thus having HALF the necessary fuel. The plane literally landed on gas fumes).
And yes , measurement error to downright incompetence is a very high possibility despite what you think of them. There is no demonstration or indication they are anything but human being, or far more competent than the average. So tehre is NO indication whatsoever that such error can be excluded.
"They are skilled and demonstratively inventive."
They have skillfully separated investors from $22 million with an inventive story about the perpetual motion machine that got away.
Now the special people behind the curtain have busied themselves purging the already nearly dead Steorn forum of most vocal skeptics. It would be very difficult to interpret these purges as expressions of confidence.
Maybe you are right. After all, if Steorn had an obvious OU gizmo to demo, even the insanely captious skeptics would be shut up, and bow to Steorn. So Steorn would want them around to humble them on the very forum they have spent so much time insulting.
So maybe Steorn has nothing more than a flash presentation, or an orbo that is connected to the mains and cannot be made self-running because of some obscure bit about the waveform of the output, or something like that.
Or maybe Sean figures the clowns are so arrogant, that even if OU bit them on the ass they would still refuse to believe it, and he doesn't want the forum polluted with them when the debut of the Orbo will turn it into a showcase, consulted by the movers and shakers around the world.
Or maybe Sean just got sick of the idiots and decided to get rid of them, with no more thought than you would use with swatting a fly.
Steorn's forum is dominated by topics like "Count to a million". A showcase of science it is not.
The facts are that in two and a half years Steorn did not show the jury anything that produced energy. Steorn began the saga by insisting that they had already proven their device to many academics. They either did not understand what constitutes proof, or were simply lying.
Physics are still with us. When the dwindling investor money runs out, Steorn won't be.
Welcome to the Mary Yugo show. As Dan Ackroyd once said
"Yugo, the cutting edge of Serbo Croatian technology!"
For someone that believes not a word of it all, you spend a lot of effort painting Stoern as rogues.
"Methinks the lady doth protest too much."
Tinker
Tinker, Steorn have in three years done a perfectly wonderful job of painting themselves as scam artists. When the investor money runs out, and it always does, Steorn will be gone.
"When the investor money runs out, and it always does, Steorn will be gone."
I don't know if the money is about run out, but if Orbo is phony we will know by the end of this year.
The con game, if that is what it is, cannot survive another failed demo, and Sean knows as well as you do that he has to come up with a perpetually spinning gizmo that is self-powered and works against resistance.
If he shows up at the demo with anything less, it is all over for Steorn.
Hi, Paul,
Well, we're about to see what we shall see.
I'm like McQueen on his motorcycle jumping the fence.
I wrote a pretty good description of the tech. What do you think?
The thing to remember is that EM does not impart torque to the rotor. All torque, or torque nullification, is magnetic and comes from eliminating CEMF by timing EM and magnetic interactions using spatial and temporal symmetry exploits.
J i O
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